Jeremy: Nope. I am good as far as I know
Kevin: Cool because this Walking Dead talk could really be broken into two parts in my opinion.
Jeremy: As I told Shahid last night I was drained at the end of it.
Kevin: Then you need to stop jerking off during the show
Jeremy: There hasn’t been an episode like this in a while. Knowing something terrible is coming. I liken it to the final episode of The Shield and not the mediocre Marvel show.
Kevin: I never watched that show so I don’t get the reference but they started the show off on an ominous note.
The give away we talked about last week was a nice red herring to make that terrible thing much more present.
Jeremy: Thought the episode did a fantastic job of balancing philosophies and actions. The action was a bit rushed but that is acceptable. Of could have used fifteen more minutes. Extended episode
Kevin: Yeah, that episode seemed like a perfect time for an extended one but no dice. I do think it was rushed but it ultimately led to the outcome of the situation too which I’d rather not get to this early in the conversation.
Jeremy: It was paced perfectly for an hour and fifteen. Of course this was the mid season finale so it gets a pass.
Kevin: So it was extended? I didn’t notice honestly. I was too wrapped up in the episode to worry about that. It’s not like Monday Night Raw. I’m okay with an over run.
Jeremy: Oh joint ended right on time. They went to commercial after The Governor said “Kill them all” with thirteen minutes left.
Kevin: It was a good time to take a commercial. Also good was that I watch it after it records so I could buzz right thru that break.
Jeremy: Watching live it was excruciating. It allowed time to soak in the deaths and then the impending battle.
Kevin: Well, before we get to that part of it. I’m still trying to figure out even with the sales pitch that the Governor gave to his new group, how do pretty much all of them go all in on the idea to attack someone else?
Jeremy: I repeatedly questioned that. The easy answer is his charisma. But the reality is that this guy who has been around few weeks suddenly becomes leader and you will blindly follow? It may go back to people always living heroes. He was going to be theirs.
Kevin: I think that was part of it. I’m not sure why none of them had big dick syndrome before he came there though. Who wouldn’t when you have a tank?
But I would still think more people would question him. Of course his broad is the only one who questioned him and she paid for it in her own way.
Jeremy: Yeah. But then you saw a lot of camouflage in those group scenes. Thinking there may have been a bit of backwoods militia in there. Mitch curtailing to his lead may have been a deciding factor. Lilly was then voice of reason for a man that didn’t have any.
Kevin: Exactly, he felt power again and it was enough to get him off. No one, even a stand in for his daughter, was going to stop him.
Jeremy: As soon as he found people to lead, meaning Lilly and clan he was back to wanting power. His changing of the facts to the camp was grating.
Kevin: Ha. I did love that. Just like a politician. Definitely a heel move.
Jeremy: Just a master manipulator.
Kevin: The most grating thing to me was him being a smug prick and asking for one on one negogiations at the prison.
Jeremy: He had the position of power. He didn’t say anything untrue. Given the circumstances he was being generous in his mind. Of course it also showed his tactical side is total garbage
Kevin: Yep, that’s what I was getting to early. Taking off Hershel’s head after Rick makes an impassioned speech to go completely peaceful and even turning some of the Governor’s crowd showed his poor judgement.
Jeremy: Rick at first came off as a total pussy. It was grating and wanted the tank to fire on him. As soon as he said they all lose it made sense. He was in the right the entire time. Having Brian posturing with the tank was perfect. Might vs right.
Brains vs brawn
Kevin: I liked that it brought out the best in Rick. He has a flexibility in his character that few on TV have. He may have started out weak but that speech was great. Rick goes from passive to taking people out and sticking out a gun shot.
Jeremy: He showed then quality of being the leader. He gave options. He avoided conflict as long as possible.
Kevin: So I saw the beheading coming even when the camera was playing it like the speech was even getting to me. Even know it was coming, I was shocked.
I also like the accurate idea that he didn’t lop Hershel’s head off. If you go back into history, few were a single swipe. It’s a disgusting, grisly act.
Jeremy: Yes the killing of Hershel was brutal. One for the fact that Rick would have kept his word. It would have been difficult but it could have been accomplished. Another due to the fact that The Governor seemed to consider it. I assume he saw his own reflection off the sword and then Rick. He looked at himself and knew change wasn’t possible. He then looked at Rick and saw a threat to his power. He had to start the fight and Hershel paid. Him just cutting in and then seeking him out to chop his head off was disgusting.
Kevin: That just added to the gruesomeness even though you didn’t really see much of it because of the hazy camera lens.
Jeremy: There was enough with the chopping and then the front perspective of a bloody Governor face with Hershel’s poor lifeless and headless body in background.
Kevin: Oh yeah. It was not much of a surprise to me that Michonne could take advantage of the gun fight and get herself out of her prisoner status at least.
Jeremy: Yes for sure. When they started firing my first thought was, um Michonne is in trouble. Lived the foot stomp to the throat. Problem solved there. I did like the break in action focusing on Lilly and daughter.
Kevin: Lilly’s fixation on the zombie trying to cross the river showed her doubt about “Brian” even more. She just couldn’t believe the guy anymore.
It cost her, her child. I just started saying “Oh no” as soon as Megan uncovered the sign.
Jeremy: Yeah when she was tugging on that piece of metal she was done for. Lilly had her doubts but when it washed away it seemed safe. Again though his tactical side failed. His obsession with taking what he wants blinded him. The place was never secure. Just like Martinez didn’t have that camp totally secure. Why did they leave the apartment in the first place? They had an entire empty building to themselves.
Kevin: I don’t know. We’ll never get the answers either. The Governor never let on that he was after the Prison when he left the apartment. If he had really scouted the prison, he would realize that it wasn’t exactly the most secure spot. It more had the perception of safety.
Jeremy: It was also the fact that he was bested before. Now he wanted what they have. His superiority complex went full tilt when he got the tank. His smugness in the situation was made stronger when it appeared he was getting what he wanted.
Kevin: I know this point is a little off of where we’ve been. Lost in all of this hub bub is a bit of a smaller grade cliff hanger which was Rick, Daryl & Tyreese all figured out that someone was subverting the prison from within and no one thought it was Carol. Had to bring that point up since I questioned the quality of the prison lodging.
Jeremy: Thought it was obvious now it was the little girl with the dead shot aim. Carols adopted kids. Her name is escaping me. She referred to the walkers by name. Them Carol told her to toughen up when they were out there again. It seems to me she was feeding her friends.
Kevin: Oh, I hadn’t thought about her. I don’t remember her name either. I had forgotten that she had given them names. Everyone, including her, seemed a bit too skilled at shooting.
Jeremy: Right shot right in the forehead, which got an audible “YES” from me. Really thought Tyreese was done. Plus, kids with guns? Yes please.
Kevin: I thought Tyreese was toast too. I didn’t think anyone was left to help him out. It does make sense that the kids are getting the guns. The parents are all trying to protect the kids but end up getting killed so the kids get the guns.
Jeremy: Carol had that class earlier. She must have shown them some gun play. The girl is just weird anyway. So I really go back to my theory the girl killed Karen and burnt corpse #2. Carol covered for her.
Kevin: That certainly has a possibility of being the case. After that big gun fight goes down, does it matter that much really?
Kevin: Yes it was. Not the best set of scenes. He looked like he was going to get bit and the next thing you know he’s using the zombie as a human shield which is a fantastic idea.
Jeremy: Yes. It robbed the audience if seeking Daryl calmly getting out of it and bitch slapping the walker. Him shooting Mitch in the chest was OK. I was hoping for a stab to the neck. Leaving him to turn was a nice touch.
Kevin: I enjoyed it even if Mitch could have died more interestingly. Mitch’s look of “I wasn’t in charge. Sorry” right before getting it was spot on.
Jeremy: Yeah. Pussy boy got out manned again. The chaos if the charge in tot the grounds was nicely done though. People being separated all over the place
Kevin: Plus they kept flipping from scene to scene to add to the chaos.
It may have made Daryl a bit of a casualty
Jeremy: Yes that was very good editing. Nothing got lost at all. Yeah I’d there is a complaint it was that.
Kevin: Very little got lost which was why it worked. I was expecting Carl to save Rick from the ass kicking he was getting from the Governor. Instead, we get to see the front side of a katana blade.
Jeremy: I expected Michonne since she had practically disappeared. This was one part that confused me. They needed to establish Rick was out of bullets. Him jumping in The Governor made no sense when he child have just waited to blast him in the head.
Kevin: I thought they did a good job of everyone just erratically shooting when things started hence Carl couldn’t shoot the Governor any more.
Jeremy: Carl claiming he is a good shot with that shotgun was funny. OK Ralphie go shoot your eye out with that thing
Kevin: I wasn’t too worried about Ralphie shooting his eye out but that shot wasn’t going to happen.
Jeremy: No it wasn’t but what if they had just popped him? Would the other s have just caved?
Kevin: Probably. Mitch definitely wasn’t a leader type. They would have crumbled like Lilly’s hard ass sister.
Jeremy: Her crumbling was keeping with her character. She acted hard all the time and then wilted or got called on it. It as never shown what become of her, right?
Kevin: Nope, her fate was never shown. Trying to figure out if the other sister was shown. More people would crumble if they were in a giant gun fight with automatic weapons than what was shown. It did keep her character though.
Jeremy: Lilly’s last appearance was shooting The Governor. One giant gaffe though was the incredible disappearing Michonne. She was with Rick and then vanished.
Kevin: I hadn’t even thought about it. Not sure it was a giant gaffe as she could have gone off somewhere Rick wasn’t since he was on a mission to find Carl.
Jeremy: Well she helped him up and was walking/ propping him up as they walked towards the prison. Suddenly she is nowhere to be found. They probably had a scene with her going off and cut it. Her not being around added to the danger of the walkers and the reveal of Carl being alive.
Kevin: Carl didn’t get much TV time after the firing starting so I was wondering if he had made it. I know I saw it on your FB page today but I’m not about to believe Judith is dead until I see a zombie baby.
Jeremy: See in the comic Judith doesn’t make it out when Lori is shot and killed. Lori’s body crushed the baby. So when Maggie said she was running back in the prison I thought they were going through with that. It certainly seems audible the kid got removed. But are they even going to be allowed to show a dead baby on TV?
Kevin: I have no idea. It couldn’t be any worse than what they’ve shown already. As I’ve mentioned before, I’ve got no clues from the comics because I’ve never read it. She’s been on less than Glenn this season so she really isn’t useful.
Jeremy: When they brought Judith out in the carrier I wonders what the hell that fat ass baby is eating. Greedy kid.
Kevin: I’m not sure where to take your baby hating fetish. Minor point that we skipped over earlier, Michonne was going to let the Governor become a zombie but Lilly let him out of his misery.
Jeremy: Babies are worthless on TV. On this show it is a detriment to the group. How many baby supply runs we going to have? Lilly is the one that killed the Governor in the comics. SK guess they wanted to keep it the same. Michonne did the real work but Lilly ruined it by killing him. This apparently will lead to him being eaten though.
Kevin: That shouldn’t matter unless dumb bell missed a point blank head shot.
Jeremy: Yes but it gives people a sliver of a chance she saved him.
Kevin: Dead or zombie doesn’t matter much to me. You’re toast either way. Not like the zombies are setting up food trucks with different ethnic flavors of flesh to try.
Jeremy: Hmm. I smell spinoff. Did you notice the female walker at the end? It was Clara from earlier in the season.
Kevin: I didn’t notice that. Considering that they stay in the same area as discussed previously, repeat zombies should show up.
Jeremy: Yeah she was slow walking right in to the camera. Thought that was a nice callback. Rick tried with her as well and she dead.
Kevin: Well, the show wrapped up with everyone split in several directions. After seeing some of the preview pictures earlier this year, I expected the traveling caravan to start before the mid-season break.
Jeremy: Yeah and I don’t expect them to be separate long. They mentioned over and over they had a plan. Just like the farm. Tyreese is with the kids but then Maggie, Bob and Sasha are together but at the prison. Everyone but the bus is still there.
Kevin: Rick and Carl just struggling away. Perfect ending for that show. Everything is a struggle.
Jeremy: Yeah. Peace is fleeting.