Kevin: Was it good to finally see your favorite character back in the lime light on The Walking Dead last night?
Jeremy: Well yes and no. Always good to get a healthy does of Carol in any episode but last nights episode overall was pretty challenging.
Kevin: You didn’t like the Love Boat edition of TWD?
Jeremy: Lets just start with the philosophical change in this show. The main characters are straight up murderers now. They snuck into a compound and killed people in their sleep. I know they had validation from the two guards. They were at the correct spot but damn. Strategically it was the safest move but morally it is ridiculously complex.
Kevin: There’s so much to go into there. Rick’s argument to defend those actions was that there has already been in a run in with Negan’s gang, so let’s get the drop on them. I can understand that considering that the vast majority of people presented on the show are ass holes who will kill you at the drop of a hat.
Jeremy: Yup and I agree with that but the execution of their plan was brutal. Stabbing sleeping people in the eye slow and deliberate was so uncomfortable. This wasn’t a gunfight or even a hand to hand situation. I believe this is the first time there was no battle that took lives and that made this all the more difficult. Those people never stood a chance. Even though it was a success it changes things for all of them and as a viewer.
Kevin: I’m still trying to figure out how those people stayed asleep during the attacks or how no one screamed during the situation. I also thought they went in through the ear not the eye.
Jeremy: It seemed as if everyone was doing a down stab on the people. Read an interview with Greg Nicotero and he said Glenn stabbed his people through eye. This was also the first time Glenn killed a person. Then he takes the fall for Heath and kills another.
Kevin: I was a little surprised by the news that Glenn hadn’t killed anyone yet. I just assumed everyone in the group had killed someone.
Jeremy: They made mention of it a few times on Talking Dead which is the only reason I knew. Knowing that also helped make the scene with him telling Heath not to kill the person a bit more powerful. Glenn carrying the burden of murder for Heath. It got rectified at the end when they both mowed down the Saviors but this was now self perseverance even though they caused the situation.
Kevin: I’m going to take it you were looking for self preservation. They mowed down a lot Saviors. In general, it seemed a little too lop sided for the Group. I expect it on Hawaii Five-O. I expect at least someone to go down in TWD. Granted, that possibility still stands with Carol & Maggie being captured at the end.
Jeremy: Stupid auto-correct but yes. As far as plans worked it was near perfect. One guy ruined it all but up until then it was flawless and an utter shock for this show. Everyone showed their survival instinct as well as legit teamwork.
Kevin: Things did run really smoothly for them. I did find it interesting that Glenn & Heath were the ones to find the collection of pictures that Negan kept for his trophies. The show runners tried to make you feel better about the Group’s choice but showing that the people they attacked have serial killer tendencies.
Jeremy: Something needed to be added or addressed to show the Saviors to be as brutal as they were told. I was looking at the pictures trying to figure out if there was anyone we should have known. Yes I realize their heads were bashed in but maybe clothing would give them away.
Kevin: I was doing the same thing with the pictures. I do agree that they need to show more directly how bad the Saviors are. The confrontation with Abraham, Daryl & Sasha wasn’t nearly enough. They were dicks but that isn’t enough.
Jeremy: Yes and the only other information they have is from the Hilltop community. They are basically taking the word of strangers. I suppose the guards at the compound put any of those thoughts to rest.
Kevin: I thought they had a pretty nice set up. Far more complex than anything I’ve seen before. It wasn’t as large or have as many people as Woodbury but they had a lot of procedures to keep things safe. Pretty impressive really that the Group got in as easily as they did with limited intel from Hilltop.
Jeremy: This is also why I believe this isn’t their actual camp. A compound maybe but their only place I just don’t see it. They are getting supplies form Hilltop and maybe other places and that is all that is there? I am probably wrong in this but when something goes so well on this show, well, that has never happened.
Kevin: I agree that it seems like there should be more to the Saviors compound. Easy to go to the capture part now too. How many people did they have out on watch? Did someone slip out during the attack to turn the tables? The threat looked coordinated with the guy carrying the walkie.
Jeremy: Yes something didn’t add up at the end but it continued the streak of logic gaffes. Did they not clear the compound or did this guy sneak in after the fact? Did he drive thru cause, um, why not just run away instead of taking the noisiest vehicle possible. I get the feeling the people outside were coming back to the compound and ran across Carol and Maggie.
Kevin: That answer will certainly come next week. I’m not sure it was a logic gaffe so much as just a flat out gaffe by The Group. I get the logic behind attacking first but why not scout out the compound for a few days before attacking?
Jeremy: When they went to the compound I was surprised it went down. I was thinking this was going to get dragged out a few episodes. In the scheme of things a scouting run was in order but they had to get the head to them or they would kill the prisoner.
Kevin: I forgot about the prisoner to be honest with you. They didn’t make a big point of it during Rick’s speech to the Group or even during the raid. They found him and got him off screen.
Jeremy: Yes I forgot about bring them Gregory’s head and the prisoner. The focus just turned to them killing Negan. One funny part of the raid was the fact they had a pot closet. Um, you can grow cannabis but not crops?
Kevin: You have to have priorities sir. I think theirs are in order. The whole “Use a zombie’s head” move has almost been used too many times. Even if it’s probably been used 2-3 times.
Jeremy: It sill worked, luckily it was dark and the two guards seemed to be more amused with him rather than question it. I did enjoy the rush of profanity as they gear us up for Negan’s entrance.
Kevin: I think the fake head trick has worked both of the times they have pulled it. I’m not sure it’s worth talking about the small things that happened to open the show. I will say that I really liked the music to open and close the show. It really worked with the action that was happening.
Jeremy: There is a clear decision made to give all the characters an outside life so that we get two sides. Carol hooking up with Tobin out of the blue right after an opening montage of her baking cookies and being interrupted by a walker. Carol and Morgan especially sharing the secret about him housing the Wolf as well.
Kevin: Ahhh, I knew there was at least something else to get too. Was I the only one lost on why Rosita was so pissed at Morgan? I think Carol wants him around because of his dissenting opinion.
Jeremy: Well Rosita did just get dumped in a harsh harsh way by Abraham. I give her the benefit of the doubt here. She his heartbroken, now hears Morgan still yapping about peace when it nearly cost her life as well as others. All of those feeling surface. Carol has been staunch in her ways that now she is protecting him and it makes no sense.
Kevin: That line was brutal that Abraham gave Rosita. “I thought you were the last woman on earth. You’re not.” Ouch. Carol has been very attack oriented but I think she knows that Morgan is a useful person to have around. He is good at fighting when he isn’t having a hippie moment.
Jeremy: He is also the lone voice of dissension, which is needed in those types of small communities. They cushioned the blow so to speak with Rosita by having Eugene of course creeping around with that ridiculously inappropriate shirt. I was a bit lost that there was no follow up for Abraham and Sasha though. I know there was a lot to pack in this episode but it is clear why he was doing the breaking up.
Kevin: I was dying when they showed Eugene. I don’t think we’ll get too much follow up at least to start the show.
Jeremy: Not anticipating much follow up for anything the way the episode ended. There are only 4 episodes left though so there may be plenty of time for follow up before it all falls apart.
Kevin: I was wondering how many were left. I would imagine the hostage negotiations will take up quite a bit of the time. It’ll be more interesting to see what else the Saviors have in store.
Jeremy: They have to deliver Negan and apparently have already filmed it, spoiler? Not really but keep waiting for him to appear. The second they sent off Heath and Tara on their 2 week run I told Elyse “I think we’ll be seeing their heads by seasons end.”
Kevin: Forgot about those two dopes going on a two week run. I’m not sure why you send out two of the least capable people to do that.
Jeremy: I was thinking the same thing, other than to get rid of them from the show. Seems like a good spot to send off Abraham or Daryl at least. But those two on their own seems like destiny for death.